Drama isn’t what happens to you. It’s what happens inside you It’s when you’re alone with your pain and sadness so you can’t process it as I move through it Is it possible to raise your children without trauma life is inherently painful, you can’t protect your children from that notion you try to What you can do though is help them experience it accompanied by a nurturing adult All addictive behavior can be traced back to childhood trauma. That’s something you assert Not everybody was traumatized becomes addicted but everyone addicted was traumatized My major election has been to work The work is so seductive precisely because it’s so appreciated by the world If I think I’m not enough then I want more I’m a validation for the world that I’m enough and my wife said to me look you better realize your alcoholic Because I’m not putting up with it anymore. So we had to make a decision. I Definitely struggle with this problem in August. I had two weeks off and I couldn’t be the holiday dad I’m not sure that you want to stay with it that way for the rest of your life because you got these two young kids What’s the message to them and that is restless? It’s their fault Yeah, that’s that’s some of they’re not adequate and when you restless and unhappy on your kids They get a message that it’s about them. I Know there’s more to me than just might act itself. But despite all the teaching that I do I haven’t taught myself and that represents the kind of powerlessness and you got to start admitting that But that is the first time so this is a highly traumatized Society. This is the world in which there’s even more need for painful inquiry We have the capacity within ourselves to turn us around The answers are all within you and as you need guidance, it’s not harder negotiate the world out there It’s what a nigger shit the world with in They say that the human race is doomed that we have lost touch with our true nature That the media has corrupted us and that the planet has the future. I Disagree I believe that humanity is full of hope and that our salvation Lies within each one of us My name is Brian rose and my job is to listen the oldest method of learning known to man Each week I seek out individuals that are changing the world people who are living and thinking in a different way their stories will challenge your beliefs make you question your choices and perhaps inspire you to change I Never planned on doing any of this but now I can’t stop Join me on this mission and make humanity something we can all be proud of People call dr Gabor Mate the people whisper because he Really knows what’s going on in your head and he’s got that voice that makes you just want to talk and that’s what I did On this episode just like my first episode with Gabor. I started talking about my own problems my own issues on the first episode I talked about my struggle with addiction my ayahuasca ceremony and my trauma as a seven-year-old boy That went into the movie iron mines this episode I talked about parenting being a workaholic and we talked about some of his own addiction So I know you’re really gonna enjoy this sit-down with him He also talked about the movie iron mind which he starred in and his thoughts on John Joseph and how he deals with his traumas And even me so I love Gabor. He’s a real gift in the treasure to all of us here And I know you’re gonna enjoy this episode and inside London real Academy. It’s crazy. We’re wrapping up our life accelerator I’m going to spend eight weeks and take people from around the world through a system to help them crush 2019 and we’re ramping up for our business accelerator where I teach anyone how to start a business in eight weeks I look forward to seeing you there London real doesn’t stop when the conversation is. You see that’s when we get started Because everything begins with a thought And then comes the action The London real Academy is our global transformation platform here. We bring together thousands of students from over 75 countries Whether you want to build a profitable business from your passion or learn to speak to inspire or broadcast yourself with your very own Podcasts or accelerate your life to become a high-performance person We have the online accountability course and personal mentoring program. That will make your dream a reality Join us and we’ll take your life to the next level together Our next accelerator course is starting soon This is London real I am Brian Rose my guest today is dr. Ngaba Mattei the renowned speaker physician and author You’ve written many best-selling books including in the realm of hungry ghosts Close Encounters with addiction Which is based on your findings from 12 years practicing medicine in Vancouver’s most concentrated area of drug users You’re also known for your expertise on child trauma stress and the mind-body connection Your work reframes how we view all human development Gabor. Welcome back to London real what a pleasure to be back. Thank you Huge pleasure to have you here. We have so much to talk about today But first let’s talk about that pin on your lapel there. What does that signify? Thanks for giving bragging rights this pin represents the Order of Canada Which is Canada’s highest civilian distinction. It’s kind of the Canadian equivalent of the MBE and I got it this year for my book on trauma addiction and mind-body health. So I Was so pleased to get it because not because of the personal distinction, which is nice but because of the recognition of the work It just means that an understanding of trauma and and an a more humane approach to human beings is is actually now being Recognized by the mainstream in a deeper way so I was very pleased to get it Yeah, and did that surprise you because it always seemed like the mainstream was slow to accept some of your ideas It was a great. It was a very pleasant surprise. Yeah. Okay. Only what I should have got in years or over right? Was that in the workings or do they just surprise you? I didn’t know anything about it. Okay? I just got this email all of a sudden from the governor general’s office Wow, that’s exciting 20 years earlier would have been better But that’s not a bad start. You know, what everything in its own time? I had 20 to go would not have been better because you’d have gone to my head and which is already big enough as it is, so It came at the right time Well, we got a lot to talk about today. I want to talk about parenting. We’ll talk about plant medicines I want to talk about trauma and mind-body connection I also want to talk about how I hijacked you and put you in our latest movie our minds. I know you’ve watched it I want to talk about that and John Joseph before we get to all that how have you been and where have you been the Last year and a half. I think last time you were here I thought you were slowing down a little bit, but it doesn’t look like you have So you wanna know the sordid tale behind my life’s was it? But the last time I was here in London was in June of 2016 and I was here on a speaking trip. I gave two lectures to Dale on lectures very well received a lot of gratitude standing ovations all that and I was here with my wife And we’re gonna have a holiday Around this speaking visit and we love London. I mean the most miserable time of our lives Because I was totally depleted from all the work. I’d done here and elsewhere. And literally we had a terrible time and We’ve been married This should be 49 years and my wife said to me literally she said to me Addressing my workaholism. She said look you better be like zero garlic She says you’ve written a book called when the body says no No, you better white one called when the wife says no Because I’m not putting up with it anymore. And that was right here in London Wow And she actually watched the interview you did with me and she said To me you look so calm and collected and articulate Who the hell is that person in your real life? And so that challenged me and so we had to make a decision of What kind of life do I really want now? The work is very satisfying and There’s a lot of appreciation for it out there in the world. But at the same time if I identify with it if I make it my identity and and who I am I deplete myself and I suffer and I Impose suffering in my in my primary relationship as well. So I’ve really had to look at my life so I have slowed down and and May not look like it this last couple of months But literally now every invitation I get has to be vetted and approved by my wife Which is not a matter of yielding control to her. It’s a matter of recognizing that uh nights I need support in making these decisions and As a result of that. I’m enjoying life a lot more I’ve just signed a contract to write two new books Which means I’ll to stay on a lot more and actually do the writing so it was right here in London ever had the crisis the You know, the Chinese word for crisis is made up of two anagrams the one is for Danger the others for opportunity. So in every crisis, there’s a danger there’s an opportunity and at the beginning of your movie Are in mind John Joseph says that we have to suffer to seek the truth Some words to that effect and everybody knows they’re not he’s quoting the great We pray like playwright Aeschylus who in his Agamemnon. The chorus says be human being suffering to truth so literally It was that suffering imposed by my work autism that led me to have to make decisions and to understand the truth and Therefore I feel a lot happier than I did when I was here last time, you know glad I could facilitate that curse Thank you very much How could you turn it on for our our interview which you know? Many many hundreds of thousands of people have watched and it meant a lot to people how can you be that Gavril mottai in the orange jumper that’s just dropping knowledge and then go home and be completely lost of noticing Is that dynamic a surprise to you? Is it not I do not know it yourself. No idea. Yeah Eckhart Tolle the spiritual teacher says that Some people can embody what he calls being where they really truly present and Channel truth in their professional work, but they haven’t integrated it into their personal lives, and I’m I’ve been one of those cases Where literally my wife sometimes I said I’m married to a split personality and I’ve also realized that by the way through some work that I’ve done recently but that all of us have We all have multiple personalities the so-called multiple personal disorder is just at the extreme end of the scale scale with the personalities doing Know each other but inside you and inside myself there multiple It’s like an internal family And and it’s a question of which aspect dominates So one aspect dominates when I’m sitting here talking with you is feeling very comfortable and competent it’s quite another when depleted I go home and now I expect my wife to Give me the energy and the happiness that I’ve deprived myself of And so what does that look like? You just go quiet and silent and you know going deep and or depressed or what does that look like? depressed alienated irritable reactive Blaming, you know, I’ve been able to get that way and and fortunately I’m married to somebody who will not absorb and put up with that right? We’ll call me on it It’s not a codependent relationship Shekhar. Well, she recognized her codependency. Okay, and and and she said that’s it no more And what it what is the expression physician heal thyself? Yeah, so how did it but how does an addict? Fix their own addiction. It’s it’s usually an impossible thing Well, I mean, I I do think that although I’m not oh stuff stuff for myself I I do think that the first step where you admit your powerlessness where you admit that this is bigger than me that It’s bigger than me stratagems and the knowledge and best efforts of the little ego You got to get that this is bigger than me. You had you just really admit that you’re being powerless I had I said to sit here in London in the apartment that were staying at and admit That I’ve been parlous or my real autism but despite all the teaching that I do and all the people that expressed their Appreciation for what they learned for me. I haven’t taught myself and and and and and that represents the kind of powerlessness and you got to start admitting that But that is the first step right and the next step is Giving up control to someone else or to her to try to make steps to make a change because admitting it’s not enough well, that’s the first of the second step is where they talk about the higher power and and and and actually Recognizing that there’s a higher power now People can call that God I’m not a religious person and I’m not comfortable with the God terminology which to me is a lot of negative and Oppressive connotations or a delusional competition, you know some people that word word works more power to them But there’s I know there’s more to me than just might act itself so that that in this internal multiplicity of gobblers, there is a true self that is capable of being present and aware of and fair-minded and committed the truth and That’s what you ask for help from and and you get the support for that No in my case, I had great support for my spouse But also of course spiritual teachers and and and and and I found not surprisingly I’m not a guru person But I did meet a Hindu guru who has a yoga program and I and I’m not a follower But I learned to yoga and I’m doing that regularly now Which again? I’m looking for something higher because the OVA means unity So, how was the yoga have you done it before? I I’ve always said I’m not a yoga person. I militantly refused to do yoga Get negative affirmation then. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely and and then I learned to see other program and And I’m not here to advocate for it But it’s called the inner engineering and and and and it’s about 45 minutes a day And I don’t have to go to a class. I do it myself at home. I do it in my hotel room And when I do it, I’m more balanced, uh more grounded. I’m less driven I’m less reactive and if I don’t do it for a while, I noticed a negative change, okay? So again, there’s something higher than just my little mind Okay, so I went on holiday this year and of course in typical Gobbo Amonte fashion He’s getting me to talk about myself right away. So, thank you But uh in August I had two weeks off and one week I spent with some family in like kind of a weird camp place in Germany and the next week was in Bordeaux Which I think they should rename to boring Really because I got there I made two boys and my stepdaughter and everybody and I’ll be honest four days later. I Left and flew back to London alone because I couldn’t be the holiday Dad, I just I didn’t know what to do with myself and I was even watching myself do it and I was like, okay Let’s change different frame of mind. What’s the problem? You need to be comfortable in a nice? I mean I was trying to heal myself and I couldn’t do it and I tapped out as they would say and Brazilian Jujitsu and I came home. So I definitely struggle with this problem and What was on your mind when you’re in Bordeaux? I just felt like I couldn’t do anything and then I said to yourself, but you don’t like cowboy I would say you don’t have to be doing something you can just be but while I knew that logically was true I still felt this kind of I don’t know restlessness and I was like Okay, focus on the kids or this or that or use this time to do something else or learn or explore? but I just couldn’t get this uneasy feeling of things I needed to do and So at some point I finally had to admit that I still felt this way and I was not getting the solution and it was getting worse. So I ejected well Okay If you could recognize In that experience But there’s something is still missing for you in terms of your self-awareness, then that could be a teaching experience you know, and and I know that holiday boredom that you described and and When I go and all of it actually takes me a while to relax into it Now the problem is when you were five other people or four other people and you all said to be there for them I mean, you can’t even be there for yourself. Then you’re a real dilemma. And you either pretending to be a holiday dad Or you’re being miserable. I Understand the dilemma, but I’m not sure that you want to stay by that way for the rest of your life because you got these two young kids and What’s the message to them and that is restless Aranda? It’s their fault. Yeah That that’s that’s some of the not adequate which happens to be your particular life story I remember from our last conversation and also from your movie some persisting this throughout the generations so that this is already pass it on and Taking that on the special teacher the Buddhist teacher said that the greatest gift The parent can give to their child is his or her own happiness And when you’re restless and unhappy on your kids as I have been they get a message that it’s about them So that’s something good to recognize as long as you take it on as a challenge and you know I know you have a whole book on this and I’m gonna i’m ordering not audible tonight. Yeah, but things to think about when it comes to my relationship with my children is that First lesson of happiness is the greatest gift I can give them. Yeah, that was for seven years are very important to their other actually The first seven years are crucial I would say the first three years are the Nub of it. I always say to people you get the first three years right? You can relax If you don’t get the first year, right, you’ll be practicing remedy or parenting for decades And that’s just our first three years. So I got six months left with my first son game well, I’m sure you didn’t screw it all up and What does screwing it up look like how would you know Well, so Well, first of all, you’d know because there I’m with my son and I’m not finding rest in it So I don’t know how to be there with him. I don’t know how to be there for him And I was like that, you know And I was already I was always waiting for my kids to grow older when I couldn’t Intellectually engage them and now we’ll have something in common But the sheer act of being or the share State of being I could never achieve with them and as interesting as I look at my brothers, they’re so wonderful with little kid They’re so spontaneously there for them. I never knew how to do that, you know So while you’re busy waiting for them to get open enough to talk and engage you’ve already missed the window You already missed it you missed it because you haven’t developed because they’re really because the real relationship doesn’t depend on words It depends on the capacity to be with Makin sense just that energy from you. I’m just here with you yeah, and I’m here and now Anna and I welcome your presence right and I welcome you to exist in my presence and I’m Overjoyed to have you in my presence That’s what the child needs from a parent and that’s communicate with body language and everything everything and to the energy that you expand They can feel it. They can absolutely feel it. I can’t name it, but they can feel it Okay, and that already starts changing their personality right there? There’s Schuster personally. Okay. Yeah, okay And so that’s in the first few years. And so you were waiting to intellectually engage which makes sense They always say that mothers form a different bond and fathers is that just another way and anachronism mother’s form different bond But only because mothers are present with their kids. Where’s the father’s tend to visit the kids I mean You know the father goes to work typically and visits at home for a couple of hours and then takes off again next morning Those father’s who stay home with their kids. They learn how to mother their kids So it’s not a gender issue. It’s a relational issue and and the mothers allow themselves to be trained by the kids Whereas the father’s tend to impose their own expectations on the kid, okay? This is not Universal and talking by and large so those fathers who have the good fortune like in the civilized countries where Parents are given paternity leave Those father’s learn to relate to their kids in a different way than the Irish fathers somewhere else Okay, we can be trained but we have to be present for the training right I okay Yeah, I do. I do think of this Sometimes I was in situations where he’s one in two years old and I’m thinking I don’t know what to do here I don’t want to be here in the songs I was just like just breathe and just be here for him, you know Even if he’s playing just be here sigh when you say you mean even if it’s playing what’s that? What do you mean? What if he’s doing something that seems like I’m not involved or what you were involved. I know it’s your presence Yeah That gives me security that he can play on his own The anxious child cannot play on his own or he’ll play on his own as a way of protecting himself What you actually when you actually look at animals play The young dick the Cubs play all the time and plays the preparation for life, but it happens in the protective presence of the parents Right, so we’re there to give them that time to develop in that way with other kids and everything You’re you’re there to give them that space. Okay, so some basic lessons are given the gift of happiness. Be present Yeah, even if you can’t verbally communicate that’s not even the most important part just be there Not even if you can’t really communicate because the the two-month-old the three month or the six month old doesn’t understand words Anyway, so the communication happens on a much deeper level Okay, and the name of this book as people want to get it? Well, the name of the parenting beware that core road is called hold on to your kids why parents need to Marin more than peers and that’s been published in over 20 languages internationally and is is being published in England in January and and what it’s about is that in our culture? the children ever need to attach they need to connect with somebody because without that connection they don’t survive and In the hunter-gatherer bands where human beings evolved those attachments were with adults and not just one adult or two adults But with the whole set of nurturing adults, learn our culture We’ve deprived the kids of the parental presence for the most part and the child’s brain can’t handle an attachment void Where there’s no attachment? Figure and in the absence of the parent or the nurturing adult the child will fill that void with the peer group now kids become far more peer attached than in sautée for them and appears become their models and their mentors and their There they’re the templates for how to be how to walk and how to talk and as that happens the kids push away from the pants Because they’re more a lot more Minded to belong to the peer group which is different values from the parents and the kids brain can’t handle that competition So the brain of the child will actually choose the peer group over the parent group and where that goes you can see on Facebook and you can see it in the teenage gangs and you can see it in the increasing frustration of parents who’ve lost a part of parent because parents think that they’re part of parent comes from their the fact that they have the responsibility and the strength and the wisdom It doesn’t come from that the part a parent comes from the desire of the child to belong to you When the child is driven to belong to the peer group Because we’ve taken him out of his natural context. We lose the part of the parent. What do we do then? We ratchet up the pressure We become more Authority. We lose the authority so become a sort Arian and the more authoritarian We become a more pressure We put on the more they resist And now we labeled them with Oppositional defiant disorder and we call them obstreperous and bad and naughty kids. All they’re doing is Acting out their attachment dynamics So if you want to discipline kids, we actually have to make them our disciples and the disciples not somebody was afraid of you Decided for somebody who loves you and wants to belong to you and follow you So it’s a discipline is the very opposite of punishment. Hmm And how do you do that with your kids? Well Malloy you realize that the most important template in fact the essential template for the Emotional development of the child as well as for the brains healthy physiological development is a nurturing relationship with Mutual responsive adults that is the template for physiological brain development and healthy surgical development It’s psychological development. That means that anything that you do that undermines the relationship with the child Actually undermine the child’s development because it makes the child insecure and kids in state of insecurity or in defensive Flight or fight mode in which mode they don’t learn anything They just start defending and so that every time I used the relationship against the child So I have a two-year-old who’s angry and most psychologists impending experts will tell you timeout In other words what they’re telling was withdraw the relationship from the child as a way of threatening the child and That threat will make the chart comply with you. Well, the child may temporarily comply with you. But what have you taught her? You’ve taught her that a relation is conditional right, but they’re only acceptable to you if they please you Furthermore you’ve taught them that relationship are unstable and unreliable and And you’ve learned and they’ve learned that you’re not available for them when they’re most upset because why is he acting out why is he so in a tantrum because they’re frustrated about something because they’re angry about something because they aren’t happy and You say to them when you’re most unhappy, that’s when I’m least available to you And this is how parents are taught to parent furthermore parents are taught not to pick up the kids when they’re crying Let them sleep it out Just utterly noxious Because the child will don’t get up. What lesson do they get their emotions don’t matter. That’s the listen to gate. Okay? just the opposite of what any loving parent wants to teach right so that the psychology the parenting psychology in this culture has become anti child and as long as 70 years ago. This was already the case. Dr. Spock who you might recall sure talked about the tyranny of the infant timeout that and My mother might Oh am I talking too long? No, I love this. Can I blare the wrong? Yeah, because uh, I found my mother’s diary recently when I was six weeks old and this is 1944 My mother is writing my poor little gob or you’ll be crying since 3:00 in the morning my heart broke for you But I couldn’t pick you up to feed you and five o’clock because the doctors will be so angry with me Because I learned to feel you on schedule rather than on demand And I didn’t want to displease the doctors So I had to let you cry for almost two hours and finally at quarter to five my heart broke And I couldn’t do it anymore, and I picked you up and fed you but don’t think I’ll do it again Now what’s the message to a six weeks old who’s desperate for material contact and this woman who absolutely adored me Who did everything she could to save my life under very difficult circumstances that I already talked to you about before war time angry Nazi occupation Who? absolutely loved me and She’s absolutely hurting me at the same time and just so confusing that is for the infant No, you tell him mother bear to ignore the crying of the infant You tell a mother cat to ignore the crying of the infant the match every fiber in my mother’s being Want to pick me up and nurture me but because the doctors had told her not to And this is how we tell parents now how to parent we tell them to sleep-train their kids by not picking them up Hunter-gatherer tribes, you know what they do. They never even put their kids down in the state of nature Creatures don’t put their kids down, right? So stick to those fundamentals stick to and go what’s in your gut as well So when your kid has one of those tantrum moments be with them breathe with them be with that. Yeah validate their feelings Yeah You know that doesn’t mean you you’re permissive the kid wants to cookie before dinner and You know better you give him a cookie at one of dinner. You’re not gonna give him the cookie But why shouldn’t he be angry about it right? You know, why should I be threatened by his anger? Why should I call that naughty? Why should I call that the terrible twos Oh your anger. You’re really upset You really wanted that cookie. Yeah That’s okay I’m so sorry, you know after dinner, you know, you know There’s you’re not permissive but you’re also not acting asked demanding that the child suppress their feelings In order to be in your presence and you don’t hold the relationship is ransom to them That’s exerted a nurse you don’t you don’t use the relationship against them? One thing my wife does is when what Kayden’s just but he he has a meltdown Sometimes on the sidewalk next to traffic you’re just gone. He melted down with me one time in the pool And I mean, he literally would have broken his skull against the side of the pool. He was just banging so much He’s lost all you know all sense of his own safety. Yeah, um, and so she just talks to him. Okay I know you’re really angry Caden and that might take five minutes, but when he’s talking she’s like, okay I know you’re really angry, but we need to go so I understand you’re angry and he’s like, ah And she just tries to talk and then after a while you he’s he’s listening Here’s a tone that says that’s the whole point. He’s responding as much of the energy and the tone. I used to the words and What she’s teaching him his self-regulation he’s actually teaching that you can go through these states It’s okay, they’ll pass and this is how self-regulation happens not by you mustn’t yell You mustn’t go and son this kind of punitive and accusatory stuff. So Your wife is doing intuitively what needs to be done? Yeah. She’s from Bulgaria So it was just well a little further from the West. I think she’s more intuitive But yeah I mean and I think a couple times we tried the Exploding when he explodes and we quickly saw that did not work like getting angry with him for being for melting down It’s like it’s completely not. Well what she’s doing is instead of a timeout. She’s giving a time in She’s actually giving her Giving him Her energy and her concern and her presence at that time, which is exactly what the child needs right? And that way he’ll learn self-regulation Where’s when you React against his anger while you’re teaching his self-suppression. Okay, which is not the same as self-regulation Okay, it’s really powerful. Thank you for that. Um also I told you I did I got a stepdaughter when she was six She’s now 14. Mhm. And you said some interesting things about stepchildren and stepfathers earlier? What step is an interesting word because what is it? well, why don’t we call them step parents because they step into the role of the parent and In this book hold on to your kids what we point out is that parenting is not a role it’s a relationship so Sometimes I don’t know what’s for you but I’ve seen very often a stepparent steps into the role and expects deference and compliance and Love from the child, but why should the child off for them? She didn’t ask you to marry her mother That was her mother’s decision. Maybe four perfectly valid reasons But let’s not assume that the child is necessarily a party to it And if you want to step into the role of parenting you have to develop the relationship where the child wants to belong to you where the child’s attachment Drive is directed towards you and then you will be the parent but let’s not assume that it’s a role that simply you can start doing the right things with a lot of relationship and Krishnamurthy there the great teacher said that The most important thing is relationship We said that without understanding relationship any plan of action will only breed conflict so it’s that relationship that we have to get so That that’s six-year-old whose mother married you at that age has already been through that difficult time Because her parents divorced Now I don’t need to know the circumstances, but I can tell you know adults divorce without a fair bit of unhappiness. I Mean no, two happy Parents wake up the Saturday morning and say it’s been wonderful. I’m totally in love with you. Goodbye, you know there’s usually a period of alienation and and and stress and struggle and rancor and the child is to endure all that and Then the mother and the child is then you were the loss well, assuming that the father didn’t die or something, but but one way or the other the child, the six-year-old has endured a loss and then the mother says So she’s got some insecurities. I’m talking about the average case. I don’t know about your daughter, but Then you come along and I was sudden the mother forms a relationship with you. Why should that not be threatening to the child? She’s already lost something and also this is a stranger in the home who mommy really loves Well every reason she might perhaps perceive you as a threat now Maybe she didn’t maybe you found a great relationship with her right from the beginning and maybe she welcomed you into the home but can easily work the other way and that was all I’m saying is We have to understand that The parents relationship with one another is not immediately transferable to the child That a relationship is to build with the child and that’s what then gives you the power to parent is the relationship that child wants to give you and and and and and and and and and Maintain with you the power of parenting comes from the desire of the child to belong to you Right, and this is whether you’re the step parent of the biological parent, okay Yeah, I remember the first time I met Gabby and we went home for ice cream three of us And she was looking at me like who the hell is this guy? And then I think at one point I took us a scoop of her mom’s ice cream and I ate it and she said Why are you eating my mommy’s ice cream? It was just like oh it was it was she clocked it right away and so good for her, you know But but when I finally really when we said I finally really started seeing her mother a lot I really made an effort and I would actually just have dates where I would pick up Gabby alone without her mom there and we would Go to the mall and right and we really invested actually when we moved in together I asked her permission I said would you like to move in with us? Well? And like took her out to a coffee and like I was like I really want you to but it’s your call And then she was just like yeah. Okay. So I’m saying you meant it if she’s yeah, you wouldn’t have been yeah Well, I mean we would have a real problem, right? Yeah, maybe I would have had to go for a few more coffees. I don’t know but I had a stepmother too And so maybe I I saw how she invested in me, right and I understood that dynamic and I ended up really You know getting close to her rose she took time out for me really that helped tell me about social media because My boys aren’t there yet. Although they do they can find them there can find a lot their way to a laptop pretty quick But they’re not on social media, but but my daughter is of course Obviously that peer group now is readily available In this new addictive device, that’s more addictive. I don’t know if you would say then heroin and cocaine. It’s very addictive. Okay? How does that is that just up the stakes? Well, so in a blog hold on to your kids me the last two chapters about the digital media And it’s a huge topic and I would say if I had boys your kids age. I will not need them Let them near any device. I Know nothing near device. That’s what I heard that the Silicon Valley CEOs do I heard that? They tell their nannies. They’re not to see a device. You have to leave it in your car That’s absolutely right. Okay tell no they’re not a bad age because First of all, the screen themselves are mesmerizing. Yeah and The more time a kids spend and they’re addictive you try and peel a kid off their device. You see typical addictive Protests and outrage Yeah anger anger all that kind of stuff because you’re coming you coming between the addict and their addiction and you know you from your own addictive history or me from mine what it’s like when somebody’s Zombie tries to come between you and and your addictive target behavior you know and Back, sorry, I mean, yeah everything in your five year of your being says no Absolutely, right. No. So first of all, the screens themselves affect the brain the developing brain so the more times a kid spends watching screens the more depletes their dopamine receptors And dopamine receptors are the ones that get implicated in the dictionary on the the incentive motivation Circuitry of the brain number one the child develops an attachment relationship with the Machine and Then as they get older they this is with one and two or three or four year olds so what we say about the digital media is It’s a good thing but so sex and so is alcohol, but we don’t give two-year-olds alcohol And we don’t introduce five years of the sexual practices why cuz they’re not ready to handle it So you give digital media to kids when they’re old enough to handle it? When are they old enough to handle it? when they no longer need to rely on it to meet their emotional needs, but they use it for the function for which was developed, which is information and communication. Those are legitimate goals But when kids are immature and the attachment needs have not been met yet, they going to use the digital media to meet their attachment needs, which displaces real human attachments So what happens on Facebook? kids have “friends” What happens on Facebook? kids “like” each other, these are attachment dynamics, except the friends are not real friends Because the real friend is somebody who really knows you intimately, and accepts you, and supports you, and wants the best for you? These Facebook friendships are highly conditional as shown by the fact that when people displease each other they different each other and the like so not real likes because What is being presented on digital media is a similar acronym of the real self. It’s a self chosen particle of who I really am, and that’s what shows up on Facebook. And so people like a part of me But how does that satisfy my need to be accepted and respected and loved for who I really am? it actually undermines it. So the digital media is the very opposite of genuine human contact. Now, can it be used that way? sure! if you got two young kids now, and if you’ve got parents who live in United States, then those kids want to connect with their grandparents What a great device Skype is or Zoom is, but now that they can connect it’s not just a letter It’s actually you know there’s the New York Times that an article about a five-year-old who walks into this friend’s house sees a computer and says, hey grandad because He only met his granddad or mostly through the ne But that’s a great way to connect. But who needs to be in charge of that? In other words, the digital media can be introduced to a child’s life when the parents can stay in control of it When the media takes over and the child is got this addictive relationship. The child is not ready for it. So we say: don’t introduce it too early number one and number two Stay on top of it and you’ll be in charge What kind of age we talking here? well We desist from giving a specific age only because each child matures at a different rate eight ten twelve Yeah, as long as this under the direction of the parents, okay When Gaby started school in the equivalent of seventh grade, they gave all the girls iPads Terrible! That was the policy of this private school here in London, and they’re like and we were like are you sure and they’re like That’s how we teach now everything goes on there and they monitor them they do the Wi-Fi thing, but you’re not impressed with that I’m not impressed because they because my guess is they’re very quickly that iPad became a vehicle for social media and in peer relationships rather than the intention, the educational intent of it, and Real teaching happens through personal contact through engagement through inviting and eliciting the kids curiosity Through appealing to the child’s Increasingly sophisticated mind to hold complex ideas contract the radius and that’s at the same time those depend on maturation and Maturation depends on relationship with human beings. So I think if I was if I was on the education system I would introduce computers maybe in grade 11 or 12 Okay, and really and and and kids wouldn’t have missed anything because they can pick up like that How to use that stuff, and write things longhand. Yeah Still make them do mathematics. That would make their brains do work. Okay, I would have them Define their own educational goals, I would have them do research That doesn’t appear at the click of a thumb at the library but there’s the world library and after you look it up and get a sense of what it’s like to really look for something and Then you give them the tools. Oh, no, you can do this stuff Here’s a much easier way to do it, but it’s not about the teaching. It’s about what helps people human being developing to an autonomous curious self-motivated individual human being and virtually everything about digital media undermines those both

100 comments / Add your comment below

  1. I sincerely wish that I was a Workaholic !!! It's so much more profitable than being a procrastinator.

  2. Bullshit.. I was heavily addicted to pain meds for 10 years. 300 mg a day. I didn't have childhood trama. All these "experts" don't knkw shit about addiction and dependence!

  3. So Gabor meet Sadhguru and his is doing his practis:) funny tho;) it just shows me again that the mind and knowledge has nothing to do with actual happiness and real quality of life:)

  4. How a to kick bad addiction is to get addicted to multiple good addictions. Only the addicted would understand this addiction;-)

  5. Another one with narcissistic personality disorder trying to teach us something…. why don't you sort out yourself first? Sorting out other people's issues is just a distraction for all your own problems

  6. Not always, I've experienced so much trauma since childhood, no addictions. Just a little medication.
    My faith & hope in Jesus Christ has always been my lifeline, my only councellor. ?‍♀️?? a Divine intervention/ presence! ?

  7. I am a heroin addict in recovery. I had nearly zero childhood trauma, or adult trauma. It was well after addiction began before I had trauma

  8. Too vague, overarching. People can become addicted to anything- even over analyzing. Trauma or predisposition? The debate continues.

  9. I followed the ‘contented little baby’ regimen for my boys. Listening to this, I regret it. All you can do is follow the advice of the experts of the day……

  10. Wow again, I am a father as well and this Interview shows clearly that Parenting is one of the most important « Profession «  ( if I can use this word) that one can practice and despite all the good Educational systems we have in every country, we are never taught about parenting…We take it for granted, but we should pay a little more attention to this role when we decide to become parent… and the question comes: « Did we solved our own issues before becoming Parents? If not, we become « Kids » having kids you know what I mean…:-) So good this Interview… Love it. Thanks Brian

  11. Having kids, Becoming a Father and a Mother seems to be too easy…But Parenting doesn't come with a owner manual. This Interview is so great as it describe pretty much what all of us, as Parent are going through, whether we want to admit or not, whether we want to stay blind to it or not…And for all of us, Parents, solutions are not obvious. We unfortunately think that sending our kids to "School" will educate them…First big mistake…No Schooling system in the world can replace the important role of Father and Mother. Education is still one of the Profession can is "Stagnant" since hundreds of year, because it never succeeded in bridging the connection with the Parents (In the real sense) …and then addiction of all sort becomes inevitable…Even Facebook is the biggest addiction of our Time and should be considered as a problem more than a solution in many scenarios, especially when it replace the Parent role some time…There is a lot to think about from this Interview…Again…Thank you Brian for "Making it Real" again.

  12. Wonder if one completely accepts that one is totally insignificant then will one suffer from such problems. ?

  13. I freely admit that what he says is good stuff but after thinking about it, I wonder why he is pushing his ideas as much as he is. He admitted that he couldn't be a parent to his child when he was younger. I can't help but feel that this work he is doing now, is a way to get round his shame of what he failed to do as a parent in his younger days.

  14. Wow, first i discovered Byron Katie, now Gabor Mate!! These people are great and are saying the opposite of what all the "experts" on tv are saying.

  15. Love Gabor. I grew up with an anxious avoidant attachment. I guess my mum did too. It comes down the generations. Generational patterns that are negative will continue until someone breaks the link in the chain and does something different. I blamed mum for a long time. In therapy I discovered mum was just as avoidant. I'm 51 and was born at a time when children must be 'seen and not heard'. Today I'm still silenced easily. Rewiring the brain takes patience and effort but is worth it. Gabor's approach should be taught in parenting classes and schools in my opinion.

  16. So many folks that play a role (i.e. foster parents, parents, social workers) in the child welfare system need to learn from this.

  17. Yeah four days in bordoux maybe a hard start. Ten minutes of just committing to sit still five even but you commit what you think you can on your own terms… You say I'm gonna reach getting restless and stay with it for two whole minutes breathing and if it doesn't pass I'm going to allow myself to move or do something. And you go back every day and try again. Little by little. Five minutes ten minutes and once that passes and I read that an emotion passes in 90seconds chemically if its allowed to run its course so just facing but for 90 seconds could change your life and move forward so you can then just breathe for 90 seconds through restlessness when it arises…you're then in control of yourself your not going to be acting out of an emotion which could pass in 90 seconds. A thought of anxiety 90 seconds just breathe and let it pass. Happens again breathe again. Like a jungle you cut through each vine at a time. A whole holiday to this guy must be like vipasana for someone who's never meditated.

  18. This is good info but man i have yet to see a kid that turned out well whose parents always tried to talk and understand them. Parenting is very complicated. I feel like it has to be a balance between trauma and emotional support

  19. Dr. Gabe, I’m reading your books . Can you talk about depression and acceptance after the loss of a spouse or loved one etc.. I enjoy listening to you and truly believe in your goal is to influence others and not particularly for profit.. Since I lost my spouse from a major surgical blunder that when tragically wrong I’ve fell into deep depression ( I don’t take drugs) with such pain and suffering.

  20. Don't force yourself to sit with your kids..They will feel your boredom anyway…I can recommend you books like David Lancy's Raising Children or the documentary Being an Becoming. It is all about inviting your kids to your world…treat them like guests. If you like painting – just do it. They will show interest in it. If you like gardening – just do it. They will grab your tools and dig with you. There will lots of opportunity for talking or nonverbal interaction. Children are social beings that want to be part of everything around them. And if they are too small or not interested in what you are doing they will still enjoy your joyful mood and play next to you with something else. So you don't need to sit there with your toddler being bored – no human would have done that in history. Everyone was going on with their tasks and the kids had space to join and learn. You would need some hobbies like cooking, gardening, sewing, painting though and not staring on a screen 😀


  22. I am a therapist taking people to weave between Inner Child Fragmentation, Womb Trauma, Ancestral Programming and Trauma and Past Lives… One of the biggest issues with Trauma is also Entities….You need to have the skills to weave between all these aspects to truly heal…Been offering this work for 19 years and you cant focus on just one aspect…Its great that the speaks on the Inner Child but there is so much more to it…xxxx

  23. im 5 years sober but ive noticed that i've transferred my addiction to other things. doing this has made me realise ive had these addictive habits going back to childhood. im trying to figure out why/how these patterns began, why i needed that thing to relieve me of what i was feeling. why was i needing an escape at such a young age? addiction is a puzzling thing for me. im sober but im not satisfied as the root cause still remains. sigh

  24. … childhood trauma does NOT create adictions. We are born, preset aligned and attuned with "instincts" already to rock & roll with just about any and all of what we are trained or conditioned or programmed to perceive of and believe, are adictions. In fact, without adictions, there would be no affinity with or for life, or any motivations to live, and go on existing, whatsoever. Life, is adictions, ALL adictions. And they are the compulsive desires we have to exist. And like an already software enabled computer is ready to go, and will not go without; so are we born… love you, Gabor. But you gotta get with the program, man; else you will only be be leading everyone up the shitiest creek, without a true and viable compass… with great respect, and much love, and always with my best wishes and intentions for you … signed…

  25. Wow ! The Order of Canada , what a fantastic honor , and so well deserved , worn with much pride , I would say that it's an award for you ! As much as it is for your work ! You are so very modest !

  26. Well I have to say I am DJ Deb USA and I truly appreciate you listening because listening is a skill it's not handed down in families especially the families of alcoholics and drug addicts and narcissistic abusive parents no communication is a skill some of us have professionally mastered in whether it's verbally or written or through music or through TV acting Hollywood excetera communication and listening is a skill I've got it so I'm happy I have this wonderful skill and did you call the attention to it because not a lot of people do so please continue to listen when I talk about the epidemic of sex trafficking in the USA of sexual predators being in the religious communities such as pastors priest Jesuit priests Catholic priests Roman Catholic religious leaders political leaders Etc yes the well-known recently publicized sex trafficking child rapist pimp Jeffrey Epstein he made headlines but not for long because he was just use as the frontman the Fall Guy and of course when he was put into a a jail cell to be on suicide watch they say he committed suicide I don't believe it not for a minute I believe and this is just my opinion that there are people even in the white house as we speak today mr. Donald Trump was a buddy of child molesting child rapist sexual predator sex trafficking and Jeffrey Epstein yes our own current President Donald Trump check your social media see how many post you can see of Donald Trump hanging out with talking to attending meetings attending parties attending parties with Victoria's Secret models Victoria's Secret business owner millionaires I'm talking that and Donald Trump was there in the mix looking for young girls yeah does that make him a sexual predator to just like pimp Hugh Hefner sex trafficking pimp Hugh Hefner a Playboy well it's funny how we Define the word pimp but I was taught that that to man that uses a woman temperature out to puncture out for sex and to get money pimping her out for selling her body for sex so thank you for listening remember give me a favor try to check check and make a list of how many sexual predators you can expose you can catch and you can publicize with their picture with their mugshot on social media

  27. Okay first of all I've never heard of anyone referred to that bar mate as a people Whisperer however I am DJ wsa and I am the polar bear whisperer I am the lion whisperer I am the grizzly bear whisperer and maybe I am the people whisper I've never been called that one and I've never thought about it but I would have to say now that you bring that word up people whisper I am one of those two you have my Divine confession this October 28th 2019 coming to you live from Boo at the Zoo with DJ dab USA may you find the love the happiness the honesty the open-mindedness and willingness to grow and learn from your own active addiction whether it be pornography sex drugs alcoholism workaholism shopping addictions learn to Define and understand what the word Addiction means and when Step 1 of Alcoholics Anonymous says we admitted we were powerless over alcohol you can substitute in that space words is alcohol you can substitute work Hollis him sex addiction pornography addiction workaholism shopping addiction xcetera yeah you can substitute words when you're large-and-in-charge so we admitted we were powerless over let's say we're going to use alcohol here for an example you mean you're powerless over alcohol and your life has become unmanageable what does unmanageable mean okay I'm just using the alcoholic as an example here with step one we've been adding we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable that's step one in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous also in the twelve and twelve twelve steps and twelve traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous numbers can be found in any bookstore your library or you can order them usually online from a place called Hazel then it's just a great place that I've always used for all my reading and professional recovery material and Hazelden

  28. Trauma trauma is separate from addictions addictions are a total other beasts the problem with defining addictions and Trauma is that addictions are away that people who have been traumatized try to escape avoid run away from and deny their trauma and most people in the United States of America and other countries experienced multiple traumas from the moment they've been born in childhood the first trauma is coming out of the womb of your mother get smacked on the ass it's cold it's damp it's wet it's loud it's bright yeah a friend of mine John Bradshaw told me he said that was the first traumatic experience coming out of the womb of his mother and I have to agree you know for some of us that can remember that has some sort of sublime Consciousness and psychic ability to go back and to stay in touch with our feelings and our memories some of us remember that traumatic experience that's coming out of one's mother's room how Wild is that just throwing this out there on YouTube to see if anybody else possibly remembers their own birth their own traumatic experience of being pulled out of their mother and put into this world as a child as a baby and then exposed to more traumas more abuse more suffering or pain when I say pain suffering and abused I'm not just talking about physical I'm talking about verbal abuse sexual abuse emotional abuse psychological abuse of course extreme sexual abuse there's also religious abuse and spiritual abuse which a lot of pastors and Priests and children of pastors and Priests and especially within the Roman Catholic religion or say Faith Church or other religious organizations that qualify themselves as Baptist Church you know they all have sexual predators in them within them within the roots of the religious community lies sexual predators even back in the Roman days when there were Romans and orgies and orgy parties and women were used as sex slaves sexual predators ruled this Earth and they were mad not women men just a little history lesson Ask Google about orgies and the Romans and what happened back in the early years before Jesus walked the Earth do a little bit of your biblical scholar work and find out about how religious cults brainwash people how religious leaders get people to commit Mass suicides how religious leaders take over the minds and bodies of their so-called religious followers all in the name of Jesus all with a book called The Bible to me that's probably like the worst and the most tragic of all abuse is religious and spiritual abuse to a child especially when your Predator was your pasture your priests who raped you and sexually abused you are ongoing weekly basis if you are a child in a boy and you got raped trauma trauma is separate from addictions addictions are a total other beast the problem with defining addictions and trauma is that addictions are away people who event traumatized try to escape avoid run away from and deny there trama and most people and the United States of America other countries experience multiple trama from the moment they've been born in childhood the first promise coming out of the wound of your mother get smacked on ass its cold it's damn its what its loud ass bright yeah a friend of mine John Bradshaw told me he said that was the first traumatic experience coming out of the room of his mother and I have to agree you know for some of us that can remember it has some sort of sublime consciousness and psychic ability to go back and just a in touch with our feelings and our memories some of us remember that traumatic stress is coming out of ones mothers womb how wild is that just throwing this out there on you to to see if anybody else possibly remembers there own birth there own from Matt experience of being hold out of there mother and put into this world as a child is a baby and any suppose to more promise more reviews more suffering more pain in my save pain suffering in abused I'm not just talking about physical I'm talking about verbal abuse sexual abuse emotional abuse psychological of you sis course extreme sexual abuse there's also religious of views and spiritual abused which lot of pastures and free stand children of pastors increased and specially with in the Roman Catholic religion or say faith Church or other religious organization did qualify themselves as Baptist Church in they all have sexual predators in then within them within the roots of the religious community lies sexual predators even back in the Roman days when they're were Romans and orgies and orgy parties and women were used as sec slaves Cheshire predators ruled this earth and they were man not women men just a little history lesson ask Google about worries in your Romans and what happened back in the early years before Jesus want to yours do little bit of your biblical scholar work and find out about how religious cold brainwash people all religious kneaders get people to commit Mass suicide how early just leaders take over the minds and bodies of their so called religious followers all in the name of Jesus all with a book called The Bible to me that's probably like the worst and the most tragic of all abuse is religious and spiritual abused to it child especially when you're predator was your past your free who raped you and sexually abused you on ongoing weekly basis if you were a child in a boy and you got raped sexually molested by your own pastor repeatedly is pornography magazines is Playboy his penthouse is hustler magazine so I do believe that men and a particular or taunt that pornography and abusing women sexually is okay especially if they're Predator was a religious leader

  29. So I hear you've been married 49 years what I want to know is what is wrong with your wife and why is she still with you what is she suffering from that she can't see that you as an addict is not there emotionally physically spiritually sexually for her as a woman that's what I want to know please let me know is she so co-dependent so fearful of leaving you that she thinks does she think that she is nothing without you is her self-esteem so low that she thinks she can't do better I'm just asking the question

  30. So what I've seen on these videos is the creation of an illusion the creation of a man a character sort of like a cartoon character an illusion like a TV show like a sitcom series friends like a Walt Disney movie Beauty and the Beast you have created your actor self here buddy

  31. The emotions serve the ego and the addictions serve the emotions. Roy masters has been talking and writing about this for fifty years. But its good that Mate is reinforcing this stuff.

  32. 1 sentence and I'm crying… "Trauma is not what happened to you, but what happened inside you"!!! Wow! Within the 1st minute he described my life.

  33. Homosexuality is also the result of corruption of the child's mind. There is no such thing as mental illness. Its all simply neurotic conflict.

  34. If Mate wasn't a physician the powers that be would be trying to put him into jail. That's what happened to some others that talked about this stuff especially as it relates to disease.

  35. You cannot treat your children through your own ego because even a four year old child discerns the truth. We are born with knowing the truth.

  36. Nice interview…but Gabor doesn't actually go into the process of how and why the neurotic conflict is set up in the child's mind.

  37. Thank you Brian for this awesome interview, I have so much time for your journalistic integrity. Doctor Gabor Mate is one of my favourite people.

    Ignorance is not bliss, but the more you know about trauma and see its effects world wide, the wider the wound. conversations like this one about mental health, inter generational trauma, healing, childhood development and parenting with presence, awareness and intention are so valuable to the social discourse and understanding of addiction as well as our spiritual development within the human condition.
    thank you for inviting Dr Mate to speak to us.

  38. Who is this man? He is so zen but not overly spiritual. I want to be him. He seems so authentically present in the experience of himself as a human desiring to be his best for others as well as for himself. He is love.

  39. This 45 minutes should be shared with every new parent or soon to be parents. Gabor has a bit of a doomsday tone, but with good intent. No parent is perfect and no child was ever born&raised in a non stop 24/7 loving nurturing environment. Mistakes happen. Life happens. Humans are the most adaptable creatures ever, which means it's all gonna work out. Do the best u can.

  40. And when they become teenagers society tells parents not to trust them, what a waste of 12 years of parenting, they’re automatically deemed untrustworthy ? b…

  41. Insight overcomes hindsight u may disagree thats ok its your right to disagree however the way things are progressing theres going to be a very large increase to addiction rates the incidents of pedophilia will ensure that is a fact

  42. What beautiful translation of parenting..I wish I’d had simple understanding as a young mother of 3 boys throughout my own results from childhood trauma..I exposed myself to abusive relationships and self destructive behaviors? with lack of support, I struggled..my boys are in their early 20s now..I feel parenting classes shd be an essential part of education , perhaps starting in high school? Just a thought..I appreciate Dr. Mate’s words..thank u for sharing

  43. The problem with life in general is that a lot of people don´t care about each other for real. Now a bunch of haters will probably throw a lot of verbal insults against me. But someone has to say the truth before it all crumbles anyway.

  44. This thing with children not surviving if they cannot connect with others isn´t absolutely true. I´ve seen lots of kids with socalled social disorders.

  45. How true when he says that the kids get the message that their emotions don´t matter. I´ve often thought as a kid that one is not a humanbeing in the world but an entity in a world of data-oriented brutality.

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